I caught up with Bobby Guard and Importer (Daniel Brown) to discuss their collaborative EP titled STOCKHOLM; a body of work featuring six tracks that captures the anxieties and feelings felt by everyone over the past year. In this conversation, Bobby and Daniel share the meaning behind the tracks featured on the EP and the challenges of recording during lockdown.
Hi Bobby, how have you been since we last spoke back in January?
BG: Hi Keiko! All things considered, doing pretty well. It’s been a busy few months, both with music and life in general.
You’re back with a new EP, a collaboration with Importer. Could you tell us a bit about how you met each other?
BG: Yes! We’ve just released STOCKHOLM, an EP we started recording at the beginning of the pandemic. Importer AKA Daniel and I met each other sometime around February of 2019. It was a Super Bowl party if I remember right, and shortly thereafter we were both looking for a new living situation. By summer we had an apartment together for about a year.
DB: It was a Super Bowl party! Mutual friends really. I moved to LA about 3 years ago from Grand Rapids, Michigan, and have been lucky to meet a great group of friends that went to USC together. They’ve made the city feel more like home to me and Bobby was a part of that group. Bobby’s energy was just so wonderful, and then their music was amazing too, so I invited Bobby into the studio but more as a producer to their work. Not long after, we moved in together, and months later, an EP was born...
What made you decide to work together? Was this an experimental project or have you always wanted to collaborate?
BG: Well, we had always really admired one another’s work, and had tossed around some ideas and collaborated on some track production early on. At the time, I worked in film production and our schedules were quite full. But when Los Angeles locked down due to COVID-19, Daniel said, “hey we should use this time to make something!” And so, we hopped to it. And I think in many regards, this IS an experimental project! I certainly have never collaborated on a release before, and it was a great opportunity to expand our individual approaches and sentiments to sounds and ideas that we respectively would bring to the table.
DB: Our musical work had been more “supportive but separate” while we were living together. I think collaboration was inevitable at some point, but it had really taken a back seat to the flow of life. Bobby was playing a lot of shows, I was working on an album, and we had very different schedules. When the world stopped I found myself in a very different headspace than the project I was working on, so I was looking for something else to dive into. Bobby and I started jamming a lot in our living room and were just enjoying what we were doing. We picked out some songs we were working on and hit the ground running. The experimental part of it was that we didn’t really have an end goal in mind. We attacked each song differently, and once we realized what we had with each of them, we worked to weave them into a story.
You’ve described the STOCKHOLM EP as a body of work that explores some of the issues you were both facing during the pandemic, how would you say the songs reflect those issues?
BG: For me, I was, and still am, feeling a sizeable amount of disenfranchisement- sometimes even disdain- toward the US government’s response to the pandemic in regard to messaging and action (or inaction). I think there was pretty blatant evidence that the systems that many of us had been raised to believe would save us in times of trouble were either unable to truly do so or, worse yet, governed by people who would value a margin of profit over human life every time. And the insidiousness of the previous administration’s capacity for falsehood really wore into a troubling chunk of the social fabric during much of the past year, too. And in turn, some of the songwriting you hear in the EP.
DB: My mom used to always call me the “eternal optimist,” and that definitely was not the case last year, where it felt like an overwhelming wave of bad news and bad actors. My faith in humanity was definitely shook. I think the flow of the EP starts with looking at ourselves and the position we found ourselves in, and shifts to looking outward at the world, and it’s very personal about it. It’s definitely specific to that time and the feelings it produced.
"Bobby and I started jamming a lot in our living room and were just enjoying what we were doing. We picked out some songs we were working on and hit the ground running."- Importer
Why is the EP titled STOCKHOLM, is there a meaning behind the name?
DB: Stockholm syndrome (the “sympathize with one’s captor” phenomenon) kept popping into my head in those times, because being in lockdown did feel like being held captive. I think it’s human nature to want to blame someone for the loss that we were feeling, whether it was a country of a billion people, a governor, etc. But there’s not a person or group to hold responsible for a pandemic. So I found myself sympathizing with the people telling us to stay in (keeping us captive, if you will) to try and prevent disaster, which we unfortunately experienced anyway. I also might have been enjoying being home all the time a bit more than I should’ve after running around for months for work, so I was loving my cage as well, though I’m plenty sick of it now!. Once Sweden (with Stockholm as its capital) announced it was taking the laissez faire approach to COVID, it started to feel right and Bobby agreed.
What was it like working with Bobby on this project, did you face any challenges in terms of recording due to the restrictions?
DB: Bobby was a joy to work with. They have a much different approach to music than I do, but I wouldn’t say that was a challenge. I’ve been in awe of how vivid Bobby’s songwriting is since we met and, for me, since becoming a solo musician, my strengths have been more on the technical side and I write songs more haphazardly. That would make our roles on the project seem obvious, but I would say we passed around the roles of auteur and technician to good effect. Bobby and I were living together at the start of the process, so we were co-quarantiners from the get-go. What became a bit of a challenge was when Bobby moved to Colorado to be with family right after we got the basic tracks down. From there this turned into more of a “Postal Service” type project where we were sending files back and forth to each other. That was certainly challenging for me as I was brand new to that type of process. But, I think that became essential to the character of the project as each of us stepped up where we were inspired to lead. I don’t know how it would be different, but I think this would be a very different EP if Bobby and I were in the same room together for the entire process.
What was it like working with Importer (Daniel)? Have you collaborated with other musicians before, or was this a new experience for both of you?
BG: It was such an adventure working with Daniel, partly because Daniel is so much more technically gifted. Our living room was full of all kinds of equipment when we were living together, most of which I had no idea how to work. I feel like every time we’d put our heads together, I’d walk away smarter from being around his brain. It really made collaborating easy because I really respect Daniel’s intuition and the way that he approaches songs, and that respect was such a bonding agent despite the physical distance between us during the majority of the EP’s recording. I haven’t really collaborated with other musicians before outside of the occasional jam session, so this was a big learning experience! I was really grateful to be able to learn alongside him, though.
What would you say are the main differences between working collaboratively together on a project compared to recording a solo EP?
BG: Hard to say as this is my first EP! As far as singles go, especially those that I have produced independently, there’s a much more solitary nature to every decision, which can be a blessing and a curse. For the EP, I would be in Colorado and Daniel would be in Los Angeles, so any changes we made to a song past the initial groundwork that was laid we would send over to the other person. And once or twice a week we would schedule a call to give feedback and toss around ideas about directions to go. So, there was a constant soundboard and forum for collaboration, which helped flesh out some of the nebulousness of songs in their early stages and refine them as they developed.
DB: I come from the opposite direction as I’ve only done one solo EP before and have been in bands prior, but it’s definitely a bit different bringing two songwriters together and meshing styles. Luckily I would say it felt pretty natural. I was mindful to try and make sure I wasn’t trying to steal the spotlight, but also make sure I felt like I was making my mark on the project. That never became a concern. It helps when you’re working with a great person and musician.
Could you tell us a bit about each of the songs on the EP and the meaning behind them?
BG: Sure! “Summer Kings” really feels like a testament to quarantined life, that kind of hazy melancholy of lockdown, the uncertainty and depression and isolation. “Can’t Go Back” is very much a frustrated call-out of systemic failure here in the US as well as a rejection of the “hurry up and get back to normal” mentality that pervades much of the crisis. “Bleachers” is a fun instrumental that I don’t want to say too much about, but is one of the jazzier explorations on the EP. A sort of palette cleanser.
"...there was a constant soundboard and forum for collaboration, which helped flesh out some of the nebulousness of songs in their early stages and refine them as they developed."- Bobby
“Your Peace” and “Your Arms” are two of my favorite pieces on STOCKHOLM. I’ll let Daniel elaborate on “Your Peace,” as he wrote it, but it is some of the best sonic work on the EP and catchy as hell. “Your Arms” is maybe the most outward expression of lowness during the past year on STOCKHOLM. It echoes some of the frustration of “Can’t Go Back” but channels it more into a tiredness that I think a lot of people are feeling. “When All the World,” is one, with “Summer Kings,” of the songs that we both wrote lyrics for. To me, it really echoes the sentiment of that Gil Scott-Heron line, “who will survive in America?”
DB: “Your Peace” expresses and explores a bit of the “late stage capitalism” disgust that I think is common among millennials and gen z. It’s a bit of a “freeze and reflect among the hustle” song, with a bit of a wry conclusion. “When All the World” is about the political weariness of our times, but with hope baked in.
What would you say is your favourite song or lyric from the EP and why?
BG: It’s too hard to pick a favorite song, and I have a few favorite lyrics. “Looney’s in the walls in the hallowed halls of antibody Eden/ Keep calm and die slowly, it’s a low point in the lousy later seasons” from “Your Arms” really sums up some feelings about the current state of things for me, and I love the line “delusions of grandeur stole the best of us, yeah/ join the ranks, speak of control, complain” from “Your Peace.” It’s such a beautiful phrasing of social commentary that gets stuck in my head all the time.
DB: That “Your Arms” moment Bobby mentions is likely my favorite on the project, followed by when “Can’t Go Back” kicks in, “Watching the world on a screen…” and the “Your Peace” climax (“The tongue it whips, it’s got a clear directive…”. I’ve gone through phases of thinking each song is “the true best” on the EP, so I couldn’t pick just one.
Would you consider working together again on a larger project in the future?
BG: Oh absolutely. Ideally in the same room- or the same state, in the very least. Something I appreciate about both of us is there’s a consistent workflow going on most days, so I have a lot of faith in collaborations down the line.
DB: Definitely! I think we found a sweet spot where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and I’d love to explore this partnership more. I have several ideas that I’ve earmarked to try for whenever Bobby and I can make it work. I agree with Bobby that I wouldn’t want to start a project in different time zones though.
This EP feels like a time capsule, how do you think people will respond to the EP in years to come?
BG: I think a big goal of this release was to honestly capture where we were at emotionally during the time of recording, rather than address a particular event or news coverage of the given day or week. So, I hope that in the future there is an ability to connect with the messages of STOCKHOLM regardless of how far down the line that may be. I think, given the issues we still face and will continue to face in a late capitalist society, much of the EP’s inspiration will still ring true, pandemic or not.
When writing the EP did you collectively write the songs together?
BG: To varying degrees, yes! “Summer Kings” was the only song we were able to sit down with and piece the verses and chorus together in the moment, whereas “When All the World” largely existed as a composition with full lyrics of Daniel’s that were later adjusted and combined with lyrics of my own. “Bleachers” was a piano chord progression I had been tossing around and Daniel added most of the sonic textures to. We ultimately had the most back and forth surrounding the drum sound. “Your Peace” and “Your Arms” are somewhat inverse of one another in our collaborative aspects, with “Your Peace” containing some piano work and backing vocals from me in a largely Importer-driven piece, and “Your Arms” is more of my own composition, containing some guitar tones, sax, and backing vocals from Daniel. “Can’t Go Back,” while written by me, contains a lot of sonic inspiration from us both, and even has a different intro than it used to after our back-and-forth. So, it was a pretty dynamic process, throughout.
DB: To add to that, “Summer Kings” and “When All The World” were old ideas I had floating around that had just kind of never left me. “Summer Kings” from about 8 years ago (in very different form) when my former band Thickest Thieves was forming, and “When All The World” was initially meant for Importer’s Republic EP from 2018, but I didn’t think it fit with the project. I brought them to Bobby, Bobby worked with me to give them new life, and I’m so happy these orphan ideas have found a home. “Your Peace” is a song that I had pegged for a future Importer project and I thought would fit well into what we were doing.
What do you hope your listeners will take away from the EP?
BG: I hope that listeners can channel any of the feelings they may be having during this still strange time into the music and hopefully have some tunes they can hum along to on a given day. Any song you can feel in your heart and makes you want to groove a bit is a good one, in my book.
DB: In addition to that, I think the EP goes to pretty distinct places, so I hope people enjoy that journey.
Do you have any plans to release visuals for the EP?
BG: Oh yes! In fact, we already have! You can find our music video for “Can’t Go Back” on YouTube, and each song has its own respective Spotify canvas featuring distorted imagery from old 1950s advertisements and anti-communist propaganda.
What advice would you give to someone who may want to start a project in lockdown?
BG: Figure out a schedule and commit to it. If your passion is the only thing you have going on, then use that time! And pay attention to the ways that you use your time. If you’d rather be starting a project but have too many outside commitments, it’s always okay to make space for yourself. That goes for the project too- at the end of the day, when we are all bonded by this massively traumatic and complex pandemic, make sure your well-being is taken care of before applying your being to something. There were times throughout the recording of STOCKHOLM where productivity had to sit for a moment because of whatever emotional processing had to be done, and that was important. So, in that regard, make time for your project but most of all, make time for yourself.
DB: I’m not the best person to be giving advice on lockdown living because outside of STOCKHOLM, I have had trouble getting into a groove being productive creatively. However, I find STOCKHOLM to be a success, so maybe the best advice I can give is to collaborate. As a way to break through some of the isolation we’re all feeling, and a way to be accountable for something you care about to someone you care about.
What is the best advice you’ve received?
BG: I don’t really know how this was put to me or if it was really advice, but essentially the concept that it’s okay to take the time needed to make something worthwhile. I’m on the cusp of 30 this year and if I had a dollar for every time someone freaked out about not having everything figured out by 30, I’d probably be out of debt. I look at people like James Murphy or Charles Bradley or Moondog and the successes and truths they were able to explore in their worlds and themselves at later ages, and I am constantly reassured that good things will come in time, with commitment. In the same ways that abolitionist rhetoric demands a lifelong commitment to freedom, so does any passion or self-investment demand a lifelong commitment to one’s own development. So be patient with yourself, but stay committed.
DB: “It’s not about you.” I know it’s a bit of a cliche, but as an artist who very much comes from a place of self-expression, it took me a bit to internalize what this means. Music has been a large part of my identity since I can remember, and I was very much aware of that. But I think I took for granted how much music was also a means to community and how important it’s been in building some lifelong friendships I have (Bobby included). I’ve started to think of putting out a release as making a contribution to a vibrant music community, and less as “I’m putting myself out to the world,” which has taken a lot of pressure and anxiety off of myself as a musician. I’m still finding the right balance of self-expression and bringing communal energy to the music I make, but I think STOCKHOLM is a step in the right direction in that department and I look forward to continuing the journey.
Check out 'STOCKHOLM' by Bobby Guard and Importer in the links above and make sure to follow them on instagram and spotify: @importermusic @realbobbyguard
You can check out the EP on my Spotify featured artists playlist, link is in my bio!